The Sleep Doctor

Your Sleep Determines the Best Time to Eat, Ask for a Raise, Have Sex, and More!

How many hours of sleep do you need? What happens when you get an hour or two less than that? 

For years, I thought "Get 8 hours of sleep" was a rule that held true for everyone, whether they thought they needed it or not. But, I was wrong. There isn't a one-size fits all standard for sleep. In fact, the number of hours of sleep you get might not be as important as WHEN you sleep.

Learn all about your "sleep chronotype," and how you can tweak your sleeping habits to improve your performance in all areas of life. This interview with "The Sleep Doctor" is one you won't want to miss...

Episode Resources:

Your Sleep Determines the Best Time to Eat, Ask for a Raise, Have Sex, and More! [Full Text]

Dave: Hey, thanks so much for joining me in this episode of the Make Your Body Work podcast. As you know, this show is all about helping you live a healthier and happier life. Today, I'm excited because we're talking about a topic that I've been waiting to cover for a really long time. We're talking about sleep, and Sarah wrote in with a really great question. We'll dive right into Sarah's question.

She says, "Hi, Dave. I've never been much of a sleeper. Ever since my 20s, I've always averaged maybe five or six hours of sleep per night, and it seems to work for me. I know that we're supposed to get eight hours, but I don't feel like I need it. At the same time, I do wonder if my lack of sleep could be damaging in some ways that I don't notice. If I feel good with five hours of sleep, do I really need more? If so, how do I force my body to sleep longer?"

Sarah, thanks for writing in. Like I said, I've got a lot of questions about sleep, quality of sleep, how to improve sleep, how it's affecting our body. I've been waiting to get the perfect expert guest on my show to discuss this entire topic of sleep.

Today, I've got the cream of the crop when it comes to sleep experts, Dr. Michael Breus. He's known as the sleep doctor. He's written books on the topic. He goes on frequently on TVs. He's been on The Dr. Oz Show a number of times. He does podcasts. He writes in magazines. This guy, he is the expert when it comes to sleep.

Sarah, I know he's going to be able to tackle your question, and he's got some really interesting information about this idea of four different chronotypes that determine how much sleep we need, when we should sleep, when we should be working and just basically how everything around sleep can contribute to us thriving in life. I'm really excited to introduce to you Dr. Michael Breus.

Meet Dr. Michael Breus

Dave: Hi, Dr. Breus. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today.

Dr. Breus: Thanks, Dave. I'm excited to be here.

Dave: Now, you are known as the sleep doctor. Maybe we could talk a little bit about that. How did you get the name sleep doctor?

Dr. Breus: Sure. How did I end up with that moniker? I have a PhD in clinical psychology, and I'm board certified in clinical sleep disorders. I'm an actively practicing sleep specialist. I took the medical specialty board without going to medical school and passed. I'm one of only 160 people who've ever done that. I've been practicing sleep medicine in conjunction with my physician partners for my entire career, all 16 years. I treat things like apnea, narcolepsy. My specialty, as it turns out, is insomnia.

Dave: I'm really excited to have you on the show. Actually, I have a whole backlog of questions from listeners who have been asking questions about sleep. I usually don't run a question until I find that perfect expert to address the topic. When you and I got connected, I thought, "Finally, we could talk about this and I've got someone who knows what they're talking about."

Dr. Breus: Absolutely.

Dave: Can you tell a little bit about your personal story? What was it that got you interested in this particular line of work?

Dr. Breus: It was rather serendipitous. I was doing my residency training and there were rotations that you could take. You could take one in addiction, in PTSD, sport psychology. There was a six-month rotation in sleep. I just thought, "Well, that sounds cool." I don't know a lot about it. This was 17 years ago, actually longer. I said, "I'll give it a shot." By the third day, I absolutely fell in love with clinical sleep medicine.

As a clinical psychologist, it can take weeks, months, even years to see treatment gains for people who have depression, or anxiety, or things like that. What I discovered with sleep is I can literally change somebody's life in 24 to 48 hours. It's amazing how quickly people who have sleep issues respond well to my therapies and my treatment, especially on the insomnia and the apnea side.

Dave: Awesome. I was reading on your website earlier today. There's a statement, a really powerful statement. It says, "There's virtually no skill, task or function, no physiological process, no emotion or relationship that isn't affected by sleep." Even just going with that statement, basically everyone who's listening to this podcast, if your sleep isn't perfect, we're hopefully going to change your life [a little bit 00:04:39] with what we talk about today.

Now, Sarah wrote in. Like I said, I've had a lot of questions about sleep, but I think hers wraps up a lot of the ideas in one question. She basically says ever since her adult life began, she averages, she says, five or six hours of sleep and says basically she's getting by but knows there's that rule of thumb you're supposed to get eight hours of sleep.

She's just wondering, first, what could be happening to her body because of that lack of sleep and the fact that she doesn't feel like she can actually sleep any longer, how can she change that or should she be changing that? Let's start off. What do you see with the patients or the clients that you work with that would be like Sarah and just chronically sleep five or six hours a night?

Dr. Breus: First of all, I want to dispel a myth that's out there. The myth is eight hours. Very few people actually need exactly eight hours of sleep. That's something that the media hooked up on 10, 15 years ago. It's been pounding into the pavement. The truth of the matter is it's not very accurate. Everybody has their own different sleep need.

Different people have different sleep needs. There is no cookie cutter sleep solution for everyone.

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As an example, I'm a six and a half hour sleeper. I have been almost my entire life. My wife, she needs more, like eight and eight and a half. What's fascinating there is you have to figure out what your individual sleep need is. Once you have that, then I think there's a much better opportunity to have an achievable goal so that's number one.

Dave: Can I stop you right there?

Dr. Breus: Sure.

Dave: How do you determine that then?

How to Determine Your Ideal Sleep Time

Dr. Breus: I do a little experiment. I teach people how to figure out what their bedtime is. I actually have a ... I'm about to release a course, an online course that people can take where they can learn more about their sleep and actually change their level of sleep in terms of insomnia and things of that nature. Let me give everybody the quick preview of how do you determine what your bedtime is.

Most people have a socially determined wake up time because of work, or kids, or school, or something like that. Then we know that the average sleep cycle is approximately 90 minutes long and we know that the average person has approximately five of those sleep cycles.

Now there can be variations here and there, but let's use those numbers just to make the math simple. Five times 90 is 450 divided by 60 is approximately seven and a half. If you wake up at 6:30 as an example and you go back seven and a half hours, that's 11 o'clock, that is your bedtime. Does that make sense?

Dave: Yeah, it does but then that standardizes it for everyone.

Dr. Breus: That's only part one.

Dave: Sorry. I'm jumping ahead.

Dr. Breus: No, it's all good. It's all good. Let me tell you about part two. If people start going to bed at 11, if they happen to wake up at 6:30, what they should find is that they're waking up either just after alarm or maybe even before their alarm. Let's say that you go to bed at 11 and you wake up at six. Well, then you know that you only need seven hours, and so you can make your bedtime 11:30. You can fiddle around with it.

Dave: How long would you get someone to do this? If I tried this experiment tonight, for example, and tomorrow woke up before my alarm, that may be because I needed that amount of sleep or it could be for a bunch of different reasons. Do you do this three nights in a row or what do you recommend?

The More Sleep, the Better? Not True!

Dr. Breus: Seven to 10 days is usually what it takes because we also want to get the weekends in there. The other thing that's really important is people need to wake up at the same time even on the weekends. I know that stinks. I know that's not what people want to do. If you don't wake up consistently, then you will have an extremely difficult time waking up, something that we call social jet lag occurs.

If you sleep in by even as little as 30 minutes, you're going to end up changing that biological rhythm. It's going to shift and it's going to make it very difficult to wake up on Monday morning. If you stay up late Friday and sleep in Saturday, stay up late Saturday and sleep in Sunday, come Monday morning, your brain is not going to know what to do. That makes it tough.

Dave: Wow, everyone just turned off this podcast right now because they're not happy hearing that. We talked a little bit about dispelling that myth. That's awesome. To be honest, I always thought seven to eight hours is what people need. When I would meet people who just sleep five hours, I always judge them and thought, "Okay. You're ruining your health and don't even know it."

Dr. Breus: The evidence is really more if you're getting less than six hours a night. If you're somebody who gets five and a half hours of sleep a night, that's where we start to see some of the health effects of sleep deprivation. Now, remember, everybody is different so it's hard to give a hard and fast rule. The data would suggest that if you sleep less than five hours a night or five or less, or 10 hours or more, that you would have close to a double mortality rate.

Sleeping too much, or too little, can have negative effects on your overall health. More sleep is NOT necessarily better.

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Dave: Wow. Can you explain why sleeping more? I would have thought the more sleep, the better.

Dr. Breus: I know, right? That was my first thought, too, is like, "What's going on with this study?" It turns out that the people who are sleeping more than 10 hours usually have a sleep quality problem. They have a sleep disorder like sleep apnea or narcolepsy.

Also, we have a very large percentage of people who sleep that much time have a significant amount of depression. When you look at those three factors, they can have a pretty significant effect on your overall health.

The Effects of Sleep Deprivation

Dave: Interesting. Sarah and maybe a ton of other listeners right now might be comforted in knowing that six hours or seven hours sleep that they might be getting on an average night is actually okay and potentially healthy. She does say she sleeps five or maybe six hours. For someone who's getting too little sleep then, what are some of the physical manifestations that they could potentially see in their life from that?

Dr. Breus: One of the first things that we see with that level of sleep deprivation is that their thinking slows down. They're just not making really good decisions when you don't have that much sleep on board. Obviously, we know things like reaction time change quite a bit. We know that your reaction time slows by about 30%. You're almost three times slower when you are sleep deprived than when you're not.

That comes into play when you're driving a vehicle, doing something at work that requires machinery, having car pool, something like that. From a cognitive standpoint, you're just fuzzy headed. You just don't think really straight. Then emotionally, your emotions can be all over the place.

There's data to suggest that if you're sleeping less than six hours a night, first of all, you view things in a more negative light than in a positive light. Second of all, you have a tendency to be more reactive to those negative emotions. That's where the yelling and the screaming can come in.

Dave: Now, we're talking specifically about people that sleep maybe five hours a night. What about, for example ... I consider myself to be someone that needs a lot of sleep. I think I need about eight, eight and a half hours per night. If I was sleeping seven hours, will those same symptoms show up in my life even though I'm still getting more than six hours?

Dr. Breus: It's unlikely but some people are very sensitive. I can't say never but I would say there's less of a likelihood.

Dave: Interesting. Now, I know a lot of people are going to be listening to this and thinking, "I feel tired all the time or I never feel like I'm getting the actual quality of sleep that I'm looking for." As the sleep doctor, what do you recommend? What can we do to improve the quality of our sleep?

What Is a Sleep Chronotype?

Dr. Breus: Well, one of the things I talk about with people all the time is knowing and understanding their chronotype. I actually just released a book called The Power of When. It's all about telling you when you should do things and so understanding your genetic propensity.

It turns out that there's a gene called your PER3 gene. The length and the width of that gene determines how much sleep you need, which is what we're discussing now, as well as when you should be sleeping. People always say, "Well, Michael, what's a chronotype? That's a big word. What does that mean?" People have actually heard of chronotypes before but they may not realize it. If you've ever heard of somebody being called an early bird or a night owl ... Is that a term you've ever heard, Dave?

Dave: Yeah, early bird, night hawk maybe.

Dr. Breus: Right, right. Those people, their genetics are actually making them go to bed earlier and wake up earlier or go to bed later and wake up later. Through my research and working with patients, I actually discovered that there's not just two types. There's actually four different types.

By understanding these four types, I can then understand what their hormone distribution level is. Then I can tell them all kinds of interesting things about themselves. Once you know your chronotype, you know when to go to bed and when to wake up. Then once you know that, a lot of things get a lot easier.

Dave: You've really piqued my curiosity here because I actually did your chronotype quiz. For all the listeners out there, I'll put a link in the show notes. If you go to, I'll have a link to this quiz. I did this chronotype quiz, and it asked some very bizarre questions, and then told me that my chronotype is a dolphin. Can you tell me about that? What does that mean?

Dr. Breus: Sure. First of all, like I said before, there are four chronotypes. What I try to do is understand what your chronotype is to give me a reference, if you will. Let me go through the four chronotypes, and then I'll go to dolphin last so we can really focus in on you.

Dave: Sure.


Dr. Breus: The first one, I replaced early bird with what I call a lion. Lions have a tendency to wake up very early, much the way an early bird would. They'd get up around 5:30, 6 o'clock. These are my COOs of the world. These are my leaders. These are the people that have a greater tendency to really follow their rule.

They usually set up a list every morning and they check box off the list to make sure that they're accomplishing things. Socially, they have a tendency to have a problem. Because they get up so early, they don't like to stay up very late.

These are my people who are going to bed by 9 o'clock and they're missing out socially on a lot of things. They may get a lot of stuff done at work and that type A personality, but they're not really doing such a great job on the social side of things. They represent about 15% of the population.


Bears represent about 55% of the population. They're the largest group out there. These are my extroverts. These are the people that are really the glue that keeps society together.

They're very, very interesting people. They do a great job of working hard and playing hard. When you sit down for lunch, you want to sit next to a bear because they're always telling a funny story or they're very gregarious. They're a lot of fun to be around. They're the good person to go out to dinner with, that kind of thing.


Then there are my night people which I call wolves. I happen to be a night person myself. I prefer to go to bed around 12:30, 1 o'clock, waking up around 6:37. No actually, no, like 7:38 if I get my way.

We have a tendency to be more introverted. We are more artistic in nature and creative in nature so authors, and musicians, actors, things like that. We're a little standoffish at first. Society really doesn't like the night person because we're up when everybody else is presumably asleep.


The final category is the dolphin. I chose dolphins because in the animal kingdom, most people don't know it but dolphins sleep unihemispherically, meaning that half of their brain is asleep while the other half is awake and looking for predators. I thought that was a good representation of my people who are not so great sleepers.

My dolphins are very intelligent but one of the things that they have a problem with is they have a perfectionistic side to them. At times, this perfectionistic side can get in the way of them actually completing tasks.

While they are my type A personalities as well, they're just not nearly as productive, at least generally speaking, as my lions have a tendency to be. Maybe a little bit on the neurotic side in terms of just always looking at different details and things like that. Did I strike a chord with you there, Dave?

Dave: Totally. Yeah, exactly. It started to bring into light now the questions in this quiz why the questions are as they are.

Dr. Breus: The first 10 questions help me determine if you're a dolphin. If you make it through that, then you get slotted into either the lion, the bear or the wolf. My book was really designed around all four of the chronotypes. It seems that dolphins get a lot out of it because it really helps teach them how to schedule their day so everything from your going to bedtime and your wake up time to when are you going to perform best from a productivity standpoint, right?

When is it good to brainstorm? When is it good to have sex? When is it good to do analysis? When is it good to email, ask your boss for a raise? These types of things. Throughout the day, what you'll find is there are certain type of time zones, if you will, that work really, really well for people for particular activities. At least I found that for me and we seem to be getting quite a bit of feedback from the folks reading the book.

Your sleep chronotype can determine how you will performa at any given task at different times of the day.

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Dave: You piqued my curiosity again because when you're describing the wolf chronotype ... You said that you relate very closely to the wolf.

Dr. Breus: I do.

Social Schedules and Sleep Chronotypes

Dave: Someone that wants to be awake later in the evening. We've also talked about social sleep schedules and how society isn't built around that schedule. What someone to do in that position then because the rest of the world is working on a different schedule than your natural chronotype would want you to be working on?

Dr. Breus: I'm sorry. Repeat the question again.

Dave: What does someone do, I guess, when their social schedule doesn't match with their own chronotype? How can you deal with that or can you?

Dr. Breus: That's a tough one. I got into this because I had a patient. I'll tell you a quick story. I had a patient who came to me for insomnia. We were digging around. My techniques, quite frankly, they were not working. I couldn't understand why.

Once I started to really get even more involved in her treatment, she said, "It's not that I can't fall asleep and it's not that I can't stay asleep." She said, "I sleep at the wrong times." That's where we relate to the question here is what happens when your body wants to sleep at a time when the rest of the world doesn't want you to sleep at a time?

She was actually in a little bit of a distress, actually quite a bit of distress, because she was about to get fired from work. I said, "Can I call your boss and talk to him?" She's like, "You can do whatever you want." I called her boss and I said, "We've got a situation here. Would you be willing to let her come in about an hour and a half, two hours later and stay about an hour and half, two hours later just as an experiment?" He said, "I'm really like a week away from firing her and I really like her as a person. I want to see her succeed here so I'm willing to try anything."

We did the experiment. I called him back in a week. He said, "I don't know what you did to her but she has changed completely." He said, "She shows up to work at the new time. No problem. She doesn't fall asleep in meetings. Her work product has improved a thousand percent." He said, "This is amazing."

I was calling her back to give her back the news. I got her husband on the phone. I said, "What do you think of what's going on?" He said, "I like my wife more." I thought that was really interesting. Her misalignment with the rest of the world was really making it difficult to have a relationship.

He said, "One of the things that we've discovered is now I know and understand how she works, I know when to talk to her and when not to talk to her."

We use the power of when as a methodology for better communication and that level of communication can be very, very effective in terms of knowing and understanding when people do things.

Let's say you've got a boss that's just immovable or you've got a job where you've got a shift and you got to run it. Well, there's actually a section in the book that teaches you how to hack your chronotype, if you will. It's a little bit on the complicated side but it involves light, melatonin and caffeine. It's perfectly healthy. It's not something that's going to hurt you in the long run, but it's something that you'd have to do fairly frequently.

My best suggestion is usually for people to educate those around them about their chronotypes. You might be surprised. I've had more employers call me up after one of their employees has read the book and they say, "Wow, can we chronotype me and can we chronotype the rest of my staff?" What he was finding was fascinating. What he was finding was is that he could actually hold meetings at particular times with certain chronotypes, and it was more effective in terms of the meeting.

Dave: This is so fascinating to me. I'm a big personality type person. I believe Myers-Briggs or whatever personality typing system you use tells a lot about work styles and team building. It just can be useful in so many different areas. As you're talking about these chronotypes, it's the exact same thing just from looking through a little bit of a different lens at how people can work together.

Dr. Breus: Yeah, exactly. I'm now having different companies call me up and I'm chronotyping the entire company. We're getting everybody to take the quiz. Then we're talking with the managers. We're saying, "You've got this number of wolves, and this number of bears, and this number of dolphins, and this number of lions.

If you're trying to get a task done, these are the best times for these people to hear the instructions for the task. Then these are the best times for them to do certain parts of the task." What we're finding is the productivity levels are increasing dramatically.

Dave: Wow, interesting. You mentioned that bears I think you said are 55% of the population.

Dr. Breus: Correct, yup. That's right.

Dave: Would you say that society then has based itself on a sleep-wake schedule or a work-rest schedule to favor bears?

Dr. Breus: It is, absolutely. There's no question about it. The world, it is a bear's world as I'd like to say because that's how society has gotten to be because there's just so many of them. That's okay because one in two people is a bear. It's just tough for us wolves out there, or the lions, or you, as a dolphin. Dolphins can actually work within the schedule once they got their sleep straightened out. Again, the book does a good job or really mapping that out for people. They have a tendency to fall in line a little bit easier.

Follow Your Chronotype Rhythm

Dave: Interesting, interesting. Now, one thing that I did want to ask you about is this show is directly about health, but I get a lot of questions about weight loss and fitness. I'm just wondering if you could speak on that a little bit. Aside from productivity, how can working our chronotype and getting the right sleep affect our weight loss or fitness level?

Dr. Breus: It depends on what kind of fitness that we're talking about. Once you know your chronotype I actually teach you what is the perfect time of day to go for a run, as an example. I break it down into cardio so going for a run versus non-cardio activities like weight lifting because that's a whole different kind of thing, as well as yoga or playing a team sport.

In the book, I actually break these down into these four categories, and I give people information surrounding what is the best time to do those things. Most people like to ask me about the cardio aspect of it because I think there's more people out there doing cardio, really, than just about anything else. What I'm going to do, if it's okay with you, can I talk more about from a cardio perspective? Is that fine?

Dave: Yeah, please do.

Dr. Breus: When we look at that, first, you have to decide what is it that you're trying to accomplish with your cardio. As an example, if you're trying to burn fat with cardio, then exercising more in the morning is going to be better.

Believe it or not, exercising on an empty stomach is going to actually burn more fat than normally would. Now, I'm not talking about training for a marathon, right? Obviously, you need fuel for that. I'm talking about if you're doing a 20 to 30 minute cardio workout, maybe even 45 minutes. If you don't have any food in your stomach...

By the way, I'm not saying to not hydrate. Everybody should hydrate. Literally, the second you wake up in the morning, you should be drinking six to eight ounce, probably eight to 12 ounces to be realistic of water because your body is breathing out almost a liter of water each night.

If you're trying to lose fat and you're doing it with cardio, it's best to actually exercise in the early morning because that's what's called the fat burning rhythm. If you have what's called a fasting workout so you haven't eaten all night and you're working out in the morning within a half hour of waking, it actually converts fat into energy because you really haven't ingested any carbs yet. That's really what would have done that. Afterwards though, you would want to eat a breakfast of about 50% carbs and about 50% protein to keep those metabolic fires going.

Let's say that you're not trying to burn fat. Let's say that you're trying to do performance, right? You're trying to do your best run or get your best time. There was a great study in 2015, a British study, that showed that the most significant factor in predicting athletic peak performance across a wide range of sports is the time that the athletes prefer to rise relative to the time that they perform.

Researchers actually had athletes trained at several different times throughout the day and then they measured their speed and agility. The early risers, so my lions, actually perform best in the late morning whereas the intermediate risers, or my bears, did best in the afternoon.

Then the late risers who are my wolves did best in the evenings. What you're looking for it from a performance standpoint, you want to try to follow your chrono rhythm, if at all possible.

There is a worst time to do a run, by the way. That's around 6am. That's interesting because many people like, "What are you talking about, Michael? That's the only time I have to go for a run." The reason is that when you run at dawn or close to it, you really have a very high increased risk for injury.

Your core body temperature is low. Muscles and joints really are susceptible to strain and tear. If you can wait until 90 minutes after waking up, your core body temperature will have risen. The injury risk drops significantly. With the change in seasons, especially if you're in a drier climates, it can be very helpful.

Morning exercise is great...for some people. You may perform better at a different time of the day. Experiment to find out.

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Dave: That is just absolutely fascinating. From a psychological perspective, I quite often recommend to clients to exercise in the morning just because, as you probably have experienced yourself, things get in the way of exercise the later in the day that it's get pushed. It's unfortunate because as you're speaking there, I'm hearing psychologically or convenience-wise, I do think it makes sense to exercise in the morning. For some people, that will never be the peak time for them to actually do it.

Dr. Breus: Exactly. It depends on who you're training with, right? If you're working with an elite athlete and that's what they do, well, that's a whole different story. If you're working with somebody like me who's a doctor, and seeing patients, and trying to get stuff done, I might turn to you and say, "You know what? The only time I have is really at 6am.

Well, again, then if that's the case, then we really want to make sure that we're stretching people out. We're making sure that their core body temperature ... We're warming them up to really avoid those levels of injury. Quite frankly, there are some people that if you don't exercise them in the morning, they're just not going to do it.

Dave: Exactly, exactly. At least for my perspective from helping people try and get in shape, that is the most important factor is just doing the exercise. I don't know what the percentages would be, say, you would actually perform best if you workout in the afternoon and instead you're working out in the morning just to make sure it gets done, I'll take that. Get it done.

Dr. Breus: Right.

Make Your Body Work Takeaway

Dave: Now, Michael, we like to end the show with what's called the Make Your Body Work takeaway. Basically this is just giving the audience something really practical that they can start doing today. I know we've talked a lot about many different facets of sleep. For someone who says I don't feel well-rested, what's the one thing that you'd recommend that they start doing or could do today?

Dr. Breus: Well, can I recommend two?

Dave: Yeah, sure. Go for it.

Dr. Breus: My first one would be to keep your sleep schedule consistent. If you look at all the data with everything that we've been talking about this morning, the more consistent your sleep schedule is, the higher quality sleep you will achieve by going to bed at the same time but most importantly waking up at the same time.

I get it if you want to stay up late on Friday night because you're out with friends, but you still got to wake up at 6:30 Saturday morning. Maybe that's just a time where you can go and read the paper, go for a walk, meet up with some friends, something like that. The more consistent you are with your wake up time in particular, bedtime is good, but wake up time is the most important, the better off that you will certainly do.

Then my second piece of advice is go to take the quiz. What's cool about the quiz is you'll learn a whole lot about yourself, and about good sleep habits and sleep times. I actually can give people sleep tips based on their chronotype.

Dave: Again, to the listeners out there, it's completely free. I've got mine right in front of me right now. It gives a whole bunch of information about the dolphin and how the dolphin can perform best. I recommend it. Again, you can check that out if you go to I'll add the link to the Power of When quiz. Now, Michael, you talked about the Power of When book. Where can people get a copy because I personally am very interested? I know a lot of our listeners will be as well.

Dr. Breus: Thank you very much. The good news is it's available on Amazon or Barnes & Noble. It's available at local booksellers everywhere. If you happen to be in an airport, Hudson Books and Compass Books are carrying it on the new releases side. We're seeing a lot of pickup over there as well.

Dave: Perfect. Again, I'll throw the link. If it's on Amazon, I'll put the link right in the show notes so people can check that, again, Michael, awesome. Personally, I love the topic of sleep because it's something that I've struggled with actually over the years, and so I'm really excited to dive into my dolphin chronotype and learn a little bit more about it. Thanks for being on the show today, for answering Sarah's question and just for sharing a lot of wisdom. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Breus: No, thank you for having me, Dave. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks everybody for listening.

Dave: Thanks again, Dr. Breus, for joining us today and for sharing some really interesting information about sleep. All the listeners out there, hopefully, you all learned a lot and are eager to try Dr. Breus's test as well. Again, if you go to, I'll have the link right in the show notes there. You could try it out. See where you come back as. Maybe you are a dolphin like me. Who knows? Give it a try. Feel free to send me an email. I'd be excited, very interested to hear about your results and what you've learned about yourself through this podcast and through that test.

Next Week's Episode

Now, next week, I have a really cool show. It's all about careers. The topic is my career is ruining my health.

Anyone out there, if you have a busy career, if you feel like maybe your work is taking over from healthy aspects of your life that you would like to reincorporate, please come back next week. That will be episode number 69.

Finally, before you go, I do have a favor to ask as I've been asking recently. If you could go to iTunes, and the simplest way to get there is just go to, and give the show a rating or a comment. I'm only asking you to do that if you enjoy the show, if you feel like the information that myself and the guest on the show are contributing, if you feel like it's helping you live a healthier, happier life as the intention is. Then give it a rating.

Give me some feedback. I'd love to hear from you. I'd like to know what you like about the show, what you'd like to see in the future and doing so on iTunes helps other find the show as well. That will hopefully will help them live a healthier and happier life as well. Again, you can go to to do that. That's it. I'll see you again here next week. Thanks for tuning in and thanks for being part of Make Your Body Work community. Have a great week.

Thanks for joining me today!